Vamp Or AP - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

elLOCOmutha · Sep 09, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Vamp, furious and condition lengthen ftw.

Savio · Sep 09, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

While vamp appears to do more damage everyone seems to forget you are LOSEING 3hp per second EVERY second while useing one. This to me anyway makes it pretty much useless. I prefer ele damage or even sundering to loseing HP all the time.

1 pip of health degen is 2 health lost per second. Without an IAS you gain 3 health every 4/3 second, or 9/4 health per second. That means you gain 1/4 health per second while fighting without any increased attack speed. With an IAS you gain 3 health every 8/9 second, or 27/8 health per second. That's a gain of 9/8 health per second while fighting with an IAS. That is why nobody cares about health degen; it's tiny (it'll take at least 4 minutes of standing around to kill you) and doesn't even matter when you're fighting. If you're not hitting anything you switch to elemental.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elLOCOmutha

Vamp, furious and condition lengthen ftw.

What exactly do you do with furious and condition lengthening?

Don Zardeone · Sep 09, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ess Age

The information Don Zardeone gave about elemental upgrades is not exactly true! For the AL it doesn't matter which kind of damage the weapon deals, as long as the armor has no additional modifier. Elemental is only of use if a specific enemy has a weakness agains that specific type of damage (eg. Titals in the last missions agains cold damage). In general you can say that elemantal damage is too specific to be useful (with the exception of e.g. cold damage when there's Spinal Shivers on the target) Against Warriors Sundering is definitely the best mod as you will penetrate 20% of a strong armor with a chance of 20%.

Dear God, don't say anything when you don't know what you're talking about.

1. A warrior usually has 80 vs everything 100vs physical. If you use an elemental weapon then you will hit the 80 armour, NOT the 100. Which means that an ele weapon completely destroys sundering unless you're fighting a sentinel armoured player. Still, elemental would still be better if this is in pvp where most warriors have an attribute helm and KD gauntlets so 25% of the time, your hits will hit an area that has 80 vs all and 100vs phys. Compare this to the 20% of sundering......................................

Now add to that that there is ZERO damage reduction against elemental damage. That's another 3-8 points more damage your elemental will do compared to physical.

Therefore:
ELEMENTAL BEATS SUNDERING WHEN FIGHTING WARRIORS

2. Yes, some monsters are weaker against a certain thing than other monsters but in general it is better to use ele vs warriors and vamp vs rangers/eles. Why?
GO OUT AND HIT STUFF
Then come back and tell everyone I am correct -_-

3. Someone I know has tested several damagetypes on titans. Result: Fiery, icy and shocking all 3 deal the same amount of damage. I am now going out to repeat that exact same test.
Just because people bring winter into the titan missions doesn't mean that they know what they're doing.

(I don't have any faith in humanity)

Sol_Vie · Sep 09, 2006, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

1 pip of health degen is 2 health lost per second. Without an IAS you gain 3 health every 4/3 second, or 9/4 health per second. That means you gain 1/4 health per second while fighting without any increased attack speed. With an IAS you gain 3 health every 8/9 second, or 27/8 health per second. That's a gain of 9/8 health per second while fighting with an IAS. That is why nobody cares about health degen; it's tiny (it'll take at least 4 minutes of standing around to kill you) and doesn't even matter when you're fighting. If you're not hitting anything you switch to elemental.

QFT.

Listen to Savio. He's argued this point a thousand times over.

... and he's still right.

Spike · Sep 09, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Actualy Savio ASSUMES that you hit ALL the time and EVERY time. Which is very unlikely. With out IAS if you miss even as little as 1 in 10 you will LOSE health. Maybe not much but your still loseing it. I stated it was useless TO ME not to everyone else. I find my IDS or FDS to be much better for my warrior and a barbed or poison string to be better for my ranger.

What to do with furious and condition lengthening. 1) Furious provides extra adrenaline which is usefull for a lot of skills that are based on it. 2) condition lengthening is used with such skills as Sever Artery or Melandru's Arrows which casue bleeding to make the effect last longer.

anonymous · Sep 09, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

While vamp appears to do more damage everyone seems to forget you are LOSEING 3hp per second EVERY second while useing one. This to me anyway makes it pretty much useless. I prefer ele damage or even sundering to loseing HP all the time.

Vamp cancels itself out practically if you are attacking. If you arent attacking just switch weapons.

Mr Crapsicle · Sep 09, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

I'm not much of a numbers guy so perhaps someone can crunch this for me.

A tank with 13 str, 15 axe and a 20/20 mod

Primal Rage + (<signet of strength> + Judges Insight) -assumes that sig of str and JI will last the 10 sec duration of Primal

would that warrior do more damage with a vamp/ele weapon in each scenario ?

It's hella damage with all 3 and a 20/20 mod. Could it be more ?

warriorsmiley · Sep 09, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ess Age

The information Don Zardeone gave about elemental upgrades is not exactly true! For the AL it doesn't matter which kind of damage the weapon deals, as long as the armor has no additional modifier. Elemental is only of use if a specific enemy has a weakness agains that specific type of damage (eg. Titals in the last missions agains cold damage). In general you can say that elemantal damage is too specific to be useful (with the exception of e.g. cold damage when there's Spinal Shivers on the target) Against Warriors Sundering is definitely the best mod as you will penetrate 20% of a strong armor with a chance of 20%.

After reading this post alone i know to ignore everything this guy has/ had to say on this topic. Warriors have 80 base armor and +20 to physical damage now its plain stupid to sit and attack a warrior with a physical damage weapon. Where as if i had my elemental damage weapon im bypassing that +20 completely and hitting his 80 base armor every time. Now to make this easier. Which is smarter to do, hit a warrior with 80 base and +20 armor with a sundering weapon getting to his 80 a hopeful 1/5th of the time or hitting it with my elemental mod hitting his base armor 5/5th's of time. If you pick the 1st option i suggest you uninstall guildwars asap.

Back to the topic me personally im a huge warrior fan and have many weapons. I normally use vamp zealous and elemental but i also have sundering (just to rest on and have no drawbacks). I have a furious sword but i barely use i just had a skin that i needed a mod for so i choose it. I could come in handy when using dragon slash, auspicious parry, or even for great justice.

Savio · Sep 10, 2006, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Actualy Savio ASSUMES that you hit ALL the time and EVERY time. Which is very unlikely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by myself

If you're not hitting anything you switch to elemental.

Who's assuming what?

If you're not hitting anything at all, it takes at least 4 minutes for you to degen to death. Unless you're afking by yourself or your teammates hate you, there's a pretty good chance you'll get healed in those 4 minutes.

Quote:

1) Furious provides extra adrenaline which is usefull for a lot of skills that are based on it.

Are you using adrenaline skills as soon as they charge? Furious isn't as great unless you're doing so, and spamming adrenaline skills isn't the best road to victory.

Quote:

2) condition lengthening is used with such skills as Sever Artery or Melandru's Arrows which casue bleeding to make the effect last longer.

There's a really good chance you'll reapply the condition before the condition extension kicks in, or else the condition will be removed either through spells or death.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Crapsicle

Primal Rage + (<signet of strength> + Judges Insight) -assumes that sig of str and JI will last the 10 sec duration of Primal

post

Quote:

Originally Posted by myself

With PR and JI, Sundering does 0.7 damage more. But then again, why exactly are you using PR?

kang · Sep 10, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

I use vamp for a much easier reason......

Vamp mod = 9-10k

perfect Sundering mod = BIG MONEY

although that only counts for PvE, for PvP I have a sundering and vamp axe for GvG, vamp axe when not spiking then switch to sundering when spiking a target.

Savio · Sep 10, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by kang

although that only counts for PvE, for PvP I have a sundering and vamp axe for GvG, vamp axe when not spiking then switch to sundering when spiking a target.

I will go into a rage the next time someone posts sundering is for spiking. Sundering does not get any better during a spike. All +damage from attacks already ignore armor and are not affected by any armor penetration (a reason why strength is also a bit on the weak side.)

Spike · Sep 11, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Why would I NOT use adrenaline skills as soon as they charged. Whats the point in NOT useing them ASAP. Unless of course its something like final thurst. Which depend on the mob being under 50% hp.

Once again your ASSUMEING things you don't know about. IE that everyone has 480 HP and therefore it will take 4 mins for them to die by useing a vamp weapon with out heaing. Maybe thier have 2 sup runes and therefore only 330hp or maybe none and a sup vigor and therefore 530HP.

You said you gain 0.25 Hp a second while useing a vamp sword but if you where to miss just ONE attack in ten. That 3 hp lost would wipe out all the hp you have gained over the last ten attacks. And before you start saying my maths is wrong I know you would of gained 3.25hp dureing that time but since GW only works with whole numbers in HP terms you would of lost that too.

The fact is I don't like the -1 HP degen and prefer to use something else. IE an FDS which a lot of mobs seem to have a weekness to. Or If i'm doing 5 man farming runs in SF then an IDS and an SS with spinal shivers is FAR better.

Savio · Sep 12, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Why would I NOT use adrenaline skills as soon as they charged. Whats the point in NOT useing them ASAP. Unless of course its something like final thurst. Which depend on the mob being under 50% hp.

In my order of importance:

You want to spike someone. (I guess you could care less about PvP, but it works well against those "impossible" bosses that heal themselves.)
You're waiting for another adrenaline skill to charge before spiking someone.
You want to interrupt someone with knockdowns.
You have no reason to use it immediately. (Rush, Bonetti's Defense)
You currently cannot hit someone. (Blind, wards, defensive stances)

Quote:

Once again your ASSUMEING things you don't know about. IE that everyone has 480 HP and therefore it will take 4 mins for them to die by useing a vamp weapon with out heaing. Maybe thier have 2 sup runes and therefore only 330hp or maybe none and a sup vigor and therefore 530HP.

2 superior runes on a warrior is retarded for regular usage, and if you're farming your weapon probably doesn't matter anyway. But even if you were using 2 superiors (without even a minor vigor rune or +health mods on your equipment) it'll still take you 2 minutes, 45 seconds to degen to death standing around. So what? You're going to switch to your elemental weapon or be healed in the meantime.

Quote:

You said you gain 0.25 Hp a second while useing a vamp sword but if you where to miss just ONE attack in ten. That 3 hp lost would wipe out all the hp you have gained over the last ten attacks. And before you start saying my maths is wrong I know you would of gained 3.25hp dureing that time but since GW only works with whole numbers in HP terms you would of lost that too.

Again, one pip of health degen is 2 health lost per second. If you missed one attack (at 4/3 second per attack) you'd lose 8/3 health (~2.6) in that time. You'd gain 0.25 health from 9 other attacks, a total of 2.25 health. You'd lose 0.35 health in 10 hits (13 seconds), which you'll barely notice.

And the game doesn't round off health when it comes to degen and regen. The vamp gain will always be a whole 3 or 5 while the degen is fractional.

Quote:

The fact is I don't like the -1 HP degen and prefer to use something else.

If you don't like it, you're free not to use it; I'm not controlling what you do. But don't come in here and say vampiric is trash without any proof to back it up.

jimmy_logic · Sep 12, 2006, 11:10 AM // 11:10

OMG there still people out there that don't like the -1 degen on a Vamp Mod? As Savio has said and its been proven with calculations and tested ingame Vamp mods especially on Sword and Axes and to a lesser extent actually maintain your health level while your attacking and sometimes it actually heal you.

The reason for the 4 weapons slot isn't for you to switch to 4 different skins and flash them off but to allow you to select the weapon you need to use depending on the situation. Saves you time going into the Inventory to change the weapon.

Vamp/Zealous/Elemental are the bows that I switch around. I have a Sundering mod bow but thats because its attached permanentely to the Urgoz Longbow and I like to have twigs for my bow...

The Silver Star · Sep 12, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Personally i hate Sundering but i have a perfect chaos axe and stormbow on my warrior that have a 20/20 on them.. i jsut dont want to lose the 20/20 for another mod, because they cost abit. (btw i bought them with mods because couldnt find without because people are silly ad think 20/20 is good pfft)

However its good to change to the sundering chaos axe when i keep missing with zelous one.

nugzta · Sep 12, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

While vamp appears to do more damage everyone seems to forget you are LOSEING 3hp per second EVERY second while useing one. This to me anyway makes it pretty much useless.

Learn the facts, -1 degen is -2HP per second. Every times you hit with vamp mod you steal 3HP so you are healed 3HP per hit. Sword attack speed is 1.33 sec, 3 divide by 1.33 is 2.256. You are healed 2.256HP per second so it pretty much cancels each other out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

loseing HP all the time.

Learn to switch weapons when you are fighting and not.

EDIT: Im reading first page lol, I guess Savio explain already .... nm

Hephaestus Ram · Sep 12, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Actualy Savio ASSUMES that you hit ALL the time and EVERY time. Which is very unlikely. With out IAS if you miss even as little as 1 in 10 you will LOSE health. Maybe not much but your still loseing it. I stated it was useless TO ME not to everyone else. I find my IDS or FDS to be much better for my warrior and a barbed or poison string to be better for my ranger.

What to do with furious and condition lengthening. 1) Furious provides extra adrenaline which is usefull for a lot of skills that are based on it. 2) condition lengthening is used with such skills as Sever Artery or Melandru's Arrows which casue bleeding to make the effect last longer.

I don't know why it still surprises me that people will still hold on to
their "opinion" even in the face of proven fact.

Opinions, conjecture, and theory are only valid excuses for ignorance
until a fact is proven.

If you insist on holding on to an erroneous opinion even in the face
of a proven fact... you're still wrong.

BTW I still use elemental and physical because I've yet to find a single
maximum vampire.

Spike · Sep 12, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

I guess you had to get something right sooner or later savio. I don't care about pvp in the least. So your first two points are irrelevant just like pvp. I've never found any "impossable" bosses to kill. Some are harder than others. But the best way to kill monk bosses is an SS necro with spinal shivers and someone doing him cold damage. This is a much better way to interupt something than knockdowns. There are aslo otherways.

You CAN hit while blind but only 10% of the time. You CAN hit while in a ward of meele but only 50% of the time. You can aslo hit when in a stance it justs ends the stance.

Once again your assumeing its a warrior when anyone can use a vamp weapon. There are vamp upgardes to swords,axes,hammers,bows and daggers. Aslo in nightfall you can get them for both weapons. You missed my point AS USUAL. Which is DO NOT ASSUME THINGS.

My point was that you lose HP when useing a vamp sword, not how much you lose. So thanks for proveing that for me.

I never said the vamp upgarde was trash just that it was useless to ME, and I did'nt like it and its NOT the best overall upgarde.

nugzta, Jimmy logic, Hephaestus Ram LEARN to read or maybe you should play the game instead of posting on here. The 1/4 hp per second gain ASSUMES that you hit 100% of the time which is very unlikely. In practice you hit about 90% or less depend on what type of mobs your fighting. As was proved by savio him self you LOSE hp if you only hit 90% or less I never said it was a lot just that you did.

Hephaestus Ram I've found several max vamp upgardes. In fact I have a max vamp bow for sale now.

Savio · Sep 12, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Once again your assumeing its a warrior when anyone can use a vamp weapon. There are vamp upgardes to swords,axes,hammers,bows and daggers. Aslo in nightfall you can get them for both weapons. You missed my point AS USUAL. Which is DO NOT ASSUME THINGS.

Thanks for reminding me about bows and daggers. I completely forgot about them since I made this post comparing vampiric and sundering damage for all weapons. Obviously I shouldn't talk just about warrior weapons even though that's what the OP was asking about. I'm such an ass for assuming things and not knowing anything about the game.

Quote:

I never said the vamp upgarde was trash just that it was useless to ME and I did'nt like it and its NOT the best overall upgarde.

Of course not, it's just the best one for physical damage. The best warrior set is elemental, vampiric, and zealous (and a wand). I don't suppose you're trying to suggest that warriors should only have one weapon and not bother with the other three weapon slots?

audioaxes · Sep 12, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Man Bourbon

Don't underestimate Furious in an adrenaline-heavy build. When you can get a few double adrenalines in row you can get a pretty awesome spike. I think Furious is key on a hammer warrior, cause more adrenaline is more KD chains.

or maybe they should increase it to 20% so it can get some fair play

Sep 09, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00	#27
Mr Crapsicle Academy Page Join Date: Sep 2005 Guild: Consortium of Evil Monkeys (CeM)	I'm not much of a numbers guy so perhaps someone can crunch this for me. A tank with 13 str, 15 axe and a 20/20 mod Primal Rage + (<signet of strength> + Judges Insight) -assumes that sig of str and JI will last the 10 sec duration of Primal would that warrior do more damage with a vamp/ele weapon in each scenario ? It's hella damage with all 3 and a 20/20 mod. Could it be more ? Last edited by Mr Crapsicle; Sep 09, 2006 at 11:03 PM // 23:03.. Reason: update info

Sep 12, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19	#35
The Silver Star Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: UK, Scotland Guild: Il Guild Name Il Profession: W/	Personally i hate Sundering but i have a perfect chaos axe and stormbow on my warrior that have a 20/20 on them.. i jsut dont want to lose the 20/20 for another mod, because they cost abit. (btw i bought them with mods because couldnt find without because people are silly ad think 20/20 is good pfft) However its good to change to the sundering chaos axe when i keep missing with zelous one. Last edited by The Silver Star; Sep 12, 2006 at 01:23 PM // 13:23..

Sep 12, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35	#38
Spike Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: In front of my PC Guild: Kai Profession: E/Mo	I guess you had to get something right sooner or later savio. I don't care about pvp in the least. So your first two points are irrelevant just like pvp. I've never found any "impossable" bosses to kill. Some are harder than others. But the best way to kill monk bosses is an SS necro with spinal shivers and someone doing him cold damage. This is a much better way to interupt something than knockdowns. There are aslo otherways. You CAN hit while blind but only 10% of the time. You CAN hit while in a ward of meele but only 50% of the time. You can aslo hit when in a stance it justs ends the stance. Once again your assumeing its a warrior when anyone can use a vamp weapon. There are vamp upgardes to swords,axes,hammers,bows and daggers. Aslo in nightfall you can get them for both weapons. You missed my point AS USUAL. Which is DO NOT ASSUME THINGS. My point was that you lose HP when useing a vamp sword, not how much you lose. So thanks for proveing that for me. I never said the vamp upgarde was trash just that it was useless to ME, and I did'nt like it and its NOT the best overall upgarde. nugzta, Jimmy logic, Hephaestus Ram LEARN to read or maybe you should play the game instead of posting on here. The 1/4 hp per second gain ASSUMES that you hit 100% of the time which is very unlikely. In practice you hit about 90% or less depend on what type of mobs your fighting. As was proved by savio him self you LOSE hp if you only hit 90% or less I never said it was a lot just that you did. Hephaestus Ram I've found several max vamp upgardes. In fact I have a max vamp bow for sale now. Last edited by Spike; Sep 12, 2006 at 03:49 PM // 15:49..

Sep 09, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35	#21
elLOCOmutha Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ascalon City, Tyria Guild: Free Agent Profession: W/	Vamp, furious and condition lengthen ftw.

Sep 09, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40	#25
Spike Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: In front of my PC Guild: Kai Profession: E/Mo	Actualy Savio ASSUMES that you hit ALL the time and EVERY time. Which is very unlikely. With out IAS if you miss even as little as 1 in 10 you will LOSE health. Maybe not much but your still loseing it. I stated it was useless TO ME not to everyone else. I find my IDS or FDS to be much better for my warrior and a barbed or poison string to be better for my ranger. What to do with furious and condition lengthening. 1) Furious provides extra adrenaline which is usefull for a lot of skills that are based on it. 2) condition lengthening is used with such skills as Sever Artery or Melandru's Arrows which casue bleeding to make the effect last longer.

Sep 10, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29	#30
kang Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Australia Guild: The Confidential Men [Cmen] Profession: W/	I use vamp for a much easier reason...... Vamp mod = 9-10k perfect Sundering mod = BIG MONEY although that only counts for PvE, for PvP I have a sundering and vamp axe for GvG, vamp axe when not spiking then switch to sundering when spiking a target.

Sep 11, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47	#32
Spike Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: In front of my PC Guild: Kai Profession: E/Mo	Why would I NOT use adrenaline skills as soon as they charged. Whats the point in NOT useing them ASAP. Unless of course its something like final thurst. Which depend on the mob being under 50% hp. Once again your ASSUMEING things you don't know about. IE that everyone has 480 HP and therefore it will take 4 mins for them to die by useing a vamp weapon with out heaing. Maybe thier have 2 sup runes and therefore only 330hp or maybe none and a sup vigor and therefore 530HP. You said you gain 0.25 Hp a second while useing a vamp sword but if you where to miss just ONE attack in ten. That 3 hp lost would wipe out all the hp you have gained over the last ten attacks. And before you start saying my maths is wrong I know you would of gained 3.25hp dureing that time but since GW only works with whole numbers in HP terms you would of lost that too. The fact is I don't like the -1 HP degen and prefer to use something else. IE an FDS which a lot of mobs seem to have a weekness to. Or If i'm doing 5 man farming runs in SF then an IDS and an SS with spinal shivers is FAR better.

Sep 12, 2006, 11:10 AM // 11:10	#34
jimmy_logic Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Sep 2005 Profession: R/	OMG there still people out there that don't like the -1 degen on a Vamp Mod? As Savio has said and its been proven with calculations and tested ingame Vamp mods especially on Sword and Axes and to a lesser extent actually maintain your health level while your attacking and sometimes it actually heal you. The reason for the 4 weapons slot isn't for you to switch to 4 different skins and flash them off but to allow you to select the weapon you need to use depending on the situation. Saves you time going into the Inventory to change the weapon. Vamp/Zealous/Elemental are the bows that I switch around. I have a Sundering mod bow but thats because its attached permanentely to the Urgoz Longbow and I like to have twigs for my bow...